IN THE SPACE WITH… ‘NEVER MADE SENSE’

At the core of Old Diorama’s charitable purpose is providing space and opportunities for local and creative communities,  and - in so doing - we are fortunate to meet fascinating people doing inspiring things. This is the latest in a series of interviews with some of the creative people we support and commission at ODAC.

‘Never Made Sense’ is a collaborative project between Jonny Leitch (Sound Designer, Drummer/Performer), Elana Binysh (Live Artist/Dramaturg) and Jenny Davies, recipients of our Parallel Perspectives commissions, a paid residency for disabled artists providing two distinctly different locations (ODAC and LEVEL Centre) in which to explore their work. Read more about what they got up to below…

Would you tell us a little bit about the project?

NMS: We’re making a piece of gig theatre, inspired by Stop Making Sense, the concert film by Talking Heads. It uses choreography, lighting and sound in a really immersive & interesting way; it speaks in a lot of languages that aren’t just narrative lyrics. Gig theatre offers a lot of cool sensory options, and gives the audience the freedom to move around the space & come as they are, which is all really exciting to us. It’s basically going to be a group of Neurodivergent artists trying to restage this amazing gig but getting distracted and going off on tangents. 

We’re experimenting with what gig theatre offers as a way of communicating our thought patterns in interesting ways. We’ve seen a lot of work- performance work especially- that touches on the experience of being neurodivergent in content but still feels like very neurotypical straight storytelling, and we want to play around with this. We don’t want to follow a linear structure or a clear trajectory- that’s not how our brains work, or how Disabled people’s lives unfold.  We started discussing making a show from that perspective, thinking about how we could create something that truly reflects neurodiversity in its structure, and through its creative process.

What would you say the challenges are the challenges of creating something in that form?

NMS: It was challenging but exciting to start! We are still working out what ‘working in a Neurodivergent way’ means in terms of rehearsal room tasks and practice.  A lot of our week at ODAC was about experimenting with different processes of making, which felt great! But it was sometimes a challenge to not be drawn into feeling shame around conventional ‘productivity’ and to work in a way that is fully accessible for ourselves. 

The problem is we're all influenced by what we’ve been taught before: at school, university, in every rehearsal room we’ve been in. 

We’ve all had to manage our own neurodivergence, often mask it, and cope with the aftermath outside of rehearsals. It might be feeling completely drained, needing a week off after a week of rehearsals because we can't function properly, perhaps even breaking down in tears - these are the things we’ve personally experienced. 

Johnny and Elana did some development on this project either last year or the year before that. We found ourselves in a room and realized, "Oh my God, this is the first time we've been in an environment where we're not conforming to that."

So, are there times when you're intentionally avoiding certain actions to maintain authenticity, or is it that find yourself naturally gravitating towards a more comfortable approach that suits you better?
We noticed moments where shame arose from ideas about “unproductivity” or deviation from plans. Unlike traditional rehearsals where directors often keep plans private, we collectively agreed on a visual plan, allowing for adaptability and letting the creative go where it needs to. 

A big part of the week was checking in with each other, which also helped us check in with ourselves. Sometimes we'd start with a concept that felt more neurotypical, but by letting ourselves be vulnerable and acknowledging our fatigue or discomfort, we adjusted our approach until it felt right. The open dialogue really helped us navigate the process; it’s an ongoing thing and we’ll carry on with it when we get to LEVEL. 

Is there part of this that is about exploring what you find works for you personally as well as more general exploration about what can make creative spaces work better for others?

The thing about Neurodiversity and Disability is that they’re complex and exist in infinite combinations, so designing a general process is kind of impossible. But we’ve found things that are helpful and specific for us, and ways of figuring out what those things are, and keeping the rehearsal room responsive to who is there. 

We started by talking through all of our access needs and building a collective access rider for the room that we all agreed on. And then every day we checked in to see if anything had changed, as access needs are often fluid and dynamic, or you don’t realise what they are until they’re not met. This just happened during our normal check-ins; it was a couple of minutes a day and was often done playfully but made all the difference. 

Two big things for us were and as creatives, we all prioritise access in our processes, and we had Daniella as a creative support worker in the room throughout. 

Daniella, would you just mind telling us what what what your role was and what your background?

DANIELLA: I wasn’t expecting to speak! I work full-time as Johnny's creative access support. My role varies depending on the context, but in this room, it was prioritizing supporting the room’s needs. Being a neurodivergent creative myself, the balance was navigating when to engage and when to step back. Sometimes, I acted as a stage manager, ensuring everyone's needs were met without being too rigid, but also taking care of people.

Overall, I aimed to provide support, flexibility, and self-care reminders - I think that’s everything! It was about maintaining open communication. 

NMS: There wasn't this constant need for permission to step out for a bathroom break or to move around, and no pressure to sit perfectly still and make eye contact to prove you're paying attention. It took some time to get used to, but by the second day, we were all just doing what was necessary for ourselves, whenever we needed to, which freed up so much of our brains to just be creative. 

Did you have any other thoughts you’d like to share about the working environment at ODAC, particularly ahead of your residency at Level?

NMS: We appreciated that we had permission to make the studio our own while we were there. Often, when entering a space, you're expected to maintain it as is, but we were able to rearrange and personalising the space to make it work for us.

Generally, though, our working environment influenced our process a lot . Being in a windowless room created a sort of cocoon-like atmosphere, and transitioning between that and the cold air and traffic outside definitely impacted our mindset and approach.

We could occasionally hear some noises through the wall, which we’d been warned about, but because we were working and we were improvising a lot. It just became part of the work. It became part of what we were doing. We used it. We were riffing off the sound bleed.

The building was incredibly welcoming- the staff and the dogs- and we felt really at home. 

So final question, what questions are you aiming to answer during your residency at Level?

In the week at ODAC we looked at different disciplines- writing and sound especially- separately. Now our focus is shifting to combining these elements to create a multi-sensory experience. We’re also going to start looking at the visual language of it. 

Regarding LEVEL specifically, we’re particularly interested in how external influences impact our work, which we can’t fully anticipate until we’re there. LEVEL and ODAC are in such different environments that what we make and how we make it will definitely shift, which is exciting!  Making work should always have an unpredictable element, something responsive. We’re imagining we’ll see shifts in sensory experiences and what kind of sounds we want to focus on, but it’s all to play for! We can’t wait.